Posted in Editor's Picks, From The Publisher | 81 Comments

Will You Do It?

Will You Do It?
I’ve known anti-gun cops, who seriously said things like, ‘They have no right to own a gun, it’s my job to protect them. If they have guns, it’s just a danger to me!’

I like to think my “real” job is as the editor of our sister publication, American Handgunner magazine. A publisher wears many hats, but what I really like to do is write, edit and interact with readers. What I’ve never forgotten is we, you and I, are the same — I just happen to have this job. I spent a long time as a cop in San Diego, and an even longer lifetime so far as a shooter and gun owner. I (and parent company FMG) feel strongly about the right of law-abiding Americans to own firearms, for any reason they like; from hunting, plinking, collecting, reloading, you-name-it. But most assuredly, we believe Americans have the right to own firearms for personal protection. This brings me to a sore subject for many Handgunner readers.

I get regular reader mail asking essentially the same question: “Roy, as a former cop, do you think today’s younger cops would actually try to take guns away from law-abiding citizens, if they were told to do so by their leaders?” Keep in mind, real people and regular people just like us — not crazies — seriously worry about this.

Since I’ve sort of “crossed-over” both sides of the fence being both a law enforcer and law-abiding citizen gun owner, I can see what they’re talking about. I’ve known anti-gun cops, who seriously said things like, “They have no right to own a gun, it’s my job to protect them. If they have guns, it’s just a danger to me!” You might know someone like that too. And certainly, there are politicians out there who think the same way; and those very politicians often appoint police chiefs. Since sheriffs are elected, they can serve as a bit of a buffer on this topic. They more readily serve their voting constituent than the politically appointed chief does.

So, I’ll be blunt and ask you: Would you personally, go out and confiscate firearms from law abiding citizens — even if it goes against your personal opinion regarding the constitutional rights of citizens — and do it on the order of an administrative leader of your agency? Would you put your foot down and say, “No, that’s not legal, it’s not right, and I won’t do it” — all the while risking being disciplined or fired? Or would you simply do your duty, as it were? “I was only following orders!” And, if you don’t think it can happen, just look at New Orleans after the hurricane, when the city cops did that very thing. They also lost a lawsuit brought by the NRA in the aftermath. It was found the city of New Orleans did not have the right to confiscate firearms in the “interest of public safety.”

I was asked to write about this a long while ago, back when I was still a cop. I wrote the article and stated: I would not do it and, yes, I’d risk the consequences. I signed my name to the article, and my agency knew it. I also said I didn’t feel the vast majority of my LE peers would participate if they felt they were given an unlawful order to confiscate guns. But today? I honestly don’t know what would happen. What’s your opinion? You tell me.
By Roy Huntington

Reach me through the editor@americanhandgunner.com and I anxiously await your mail.

 

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  1. Jerry Boyd says:

    I would quit first. Unlawful orders are not to be obeyed.

  2. Jim Peterson says:

    I would refuse. Further, I would order my officers to disobey such an order. We have no responsibility to obey unlawful orders.

  3. Chris Lee says:

    Former LEO… I would disobey that order. I’m interested in the statistics of your replies.

  4. JoeThePimpernel says:

    Come and get ‘em, copper.

  5. Donald K. Simmons says:

    I don’t think it would be as simple as all that. Illegal orders are either done gradually and incrementally, or are cloaked in some distracting emergency, so they seem to have at least some legitimacy.

    Overlapping authority, even military involvement is not out of the question. The people who would do such a thing are nothing if not crafty. “By the time you realize they are out to get you, they have got you.”

  6. Omar Little says:

    Absolutely I would and for several reasons.

    1st. my job is on the line. I may not like it, but I will follow orders. If I don’t and someone is killed because of my inaction to follow orders, I may be left high and dry by my dept.

    2nd. I have a gun. I will get to keep my gun. Nobody will take my gun home because I am the law. I will take your gun. See #1 above.

    3rd. I believe in the Constitution, but it is a living document. With the way gangs and illegals are today, I want all the guns off the street. Only law enforcement should own guns. You don’t have the ability or desire to train and be profecient with a weapon. A single shot shotgun is about all you need for home defense and I’m really pushing my comfort zone to accept that.

    4th. I will confiscate any weapon I find. You have a gun? You have a permit? Your gun is mine. I’ll let you spend a few thousand dollars with the judge to get your gun back if you really want it that bad. It doesn’t cost me a thing to confiscate your weapon, but it will cost you lots of time and lots of money to get it back. If need to depending on the weapon I may add charges even if I have to make them up to keep you away from the gun.

    5th. I am sick of the .gov is coming after us. I know barrel jerkers like so many gun nuts are hoarding guns and ammo. Keep it up, because when we do come for them, I already know your neighbors won’t support you. Why? Because I am the law. You are guilty till the judge tells me you are not.

    • Derrill says:

      You are an idiot. You have no moral compass: “I was just following orders”
      Retired Deputy Sheriff from San Diego.

      • The_Grey_One says:

        “I was just following orders” Hmm seems I’ve heard that one before… Oh I know the Nazi’s running the death camps, I remember they said the same thing, just following orders.
        The fact is I really don’t think he’s telling how he really feels, doubt it in the extreme

        • Omar is an Idiot says:

          Omar Little you have quite a big head eh? You are the law? No, you are not. You are there to protect those that are not within the law. And it will be idiots like you that end up on a slab due to your trying to violate the Constitution. And no one is guilty until a judge says different. People like you should never even be allowed to wear a badge.

          • And….Omar Little…..when you do, I will blow your brains out the back of your head, and if I don’t, one of my son’s will. And, if they don’t another family member will. And if you get all of us, one of my CONSTITUTION PROTECTING cop buddies will!! You shouldn’t have a badge, you traitor, POS! People have the right to protect their property and LIFE from any threat, including a COP who is breaking the law! If you come to my house to get my guns, you are just another thief…trying to rob, and for all I know, hurt/kill my family. The law does not, nor will it ever, unless there is a Constitutional amendment, allow you to STEAL from me and threaten mine and my family’s safety. So, you will be treated like any other thug breaking into my house….dispatched with EXTREME prejudice!

        • Catherine Klimenkov says:

          You sir must be short to fear responsable gun owners and you have no buisness wearing a badge and uniform from any LE department. You took an oath to defend the U.S. Constution from all enimies foregein and domestic. Remember New Orleans/Katrina when illegal gun confiscations took place instead of patroling for looters. Every LEO I have talked to supports CCW as one quoted “we can’t be everywhere and protect you and everyone else”.

    • sir, you are a tyrant. You are what we other civil servants fear the most….a rogue who has been bullied too much as a kid and wants to take out their revenge on society. I pray for the lives, freedom and rights of the people you hopefully don’t serve in your community. You should be ashamed of yourself, and do something else. You came into public safety for the wrong reasons. You are nothing but a bully to the public who will affect us all when you finally get caught up in your dirty illegal activity. You are gonna make us ALL look bad. You are the reason law abiding gun owners fear us (as well as eveyone else). I only hope your not in some major agency…maybe a small rural area where you can only affect a small amount of people. Half of what you say is crap anyway…youd be fired and/or jailed. maybe you have been doing alot of this stuff for awhile and have gotten away with it….guys like you do…but you will be caught. until then god help us from the likes of you !

      • CombatVet says:

        “Hopefully in a rural area” Oh boy , Id love to see little Omar in my rural area! Hed get creamed by grandmas and 10 year old girls out here! Literaly! Our deputies know we will put our asses on the line should it be required. They also know if they were to take that guys attitude they would be ambushed with a suspect list that would include 3/4 of the county!!! Yee hah come on out Omar! :-)

    • Sam Adams says:

      “I was just following orders” didn’t fly at the Nuremberg trials and it won’t fly when the citizen trials of traitors take place, either formally, in a courtroom, or informally, on the street.

    • “You don’t have the ability or desire to train and be profecient with a weapon.”

      I have never been a LEO, however I am a sponsored shooter who shoots thousands of rounds a year. I will be happy to shoot a match with you anytime and show you my ability!

      “You have a permit? Your gun is mine. I’ll let you spend a few thousand dollars with the judge to get your gun back if you really want it that bad. It doesn’t cost me a thing to confiscate your weapon, but it will cost you lots of time and lots of money to get it back. If need to depending on the weapon I may add charges even if I have to make them up to keep you away from the gun.”

      You are a black eye on all the LEO’s in this country! You can try this with me, I have a CCW, my attorney will have your dept paying me and I will do everything to have your job ended!

    • Omar Little. HaHaaaHaaaaaHaaaaaaa, Omar Little!

    • Honourablemeans says:

      @ OmarLittle
      1. Tyranny cannot exist without a guy like you. You are the teeth of the beast the Bill of Rights and the Constitution were supposed to help prevent. The “living” constitution only exists in the minds of those who hate individual liberty.

      2. As far as gun grabbing–how would you like it to happen to you, or how bout your kids 15 years from now? You’ll have helped set the precedent. “Legal” doesn’t equal “moral” or “right” or “order” (as in law and order).

      3. I hope you personally come to get my guns, buddy. The possibility that someone like you might come one day to get them from me or my neighbors is the only reason I’ve got them…

      –An Oath Keeper

    • Joe Blow says:

      Omar is a troll….

    • Bring it on, the world will be a better place, people like you will be worm food, all the good cops will still be around to serve their communities, and any future cops who want to stray down the same path as you will have a precedent to remind them what happens when you go too far.

    • Ol Crusty says:

      You are guilty till the judge tells me you are not.

      Oh really? You passed the Police academy and still think that? What state are you in, so I know where to never enter. Most of us know about the fundamental protections of the constitution, including the basic right of “innocent until proven guilty”; while it may be abused, it is still the basis of our legal system.

      It is men like you that are the reason the gun nuts are getting worse, and the regular sane people no longer trust the LLEOs

    • Omar is more than likely a pseudo name for Eric Holder. We, law enforcement, active and retired, took an oath to defend the Constitution and defend our country from enemies foreign and domestic. Omar is clearly an enemy of the Constitution and a domestic enemy. Unfortunately for Omar, his attitude will make him a statistic.

      • patriot 86 says:

        Yes it will and thankyou for standing with us in this fight .We need all the LE officers on our side we can get.

  7. Michael G Marriam says:

    I’m not an LEO. I recently became interested in learning more about certain firearms. As I visited manufacturer’s websites I was amazed to see that most models were out of stock. I did some research and discovered that almost 10 million of one particular model had been sold since the last presidential election. I could be wrong but I have a feeling a lot of people recon something just like what you are referring to might just be in the works. Just who defines what a domestic enemy is anyway?

  8. If you think I’m going to let my wife and kids go hungry because I got fired rather than round up some redneck’s high powered assault weapons, you’re a dumbass.

    • Sam Adams says:

      How would the family of such a ‘committed’ LEO support themselves when the people fought back lawfully and he didn’t make it back home one night?

    • You and Little Omar are free to come get my guns anytime. You will have to kill me to get them and I will make the price very high. How will your widow support herself and your fatherless children?. I am not a LEO, but I have always been a supporter. Any cop that would follow a illegal order like that doesn’t deserve to wear a badge.

      • Well said Robert! Those that took the oath would not violate the 2nd amendment, hell we are all gun owners. I could just imagine a ‘UN Blue Helmet’ walking up that driveway in Garland or Sandpoint, it would be a one way trip.

    • that “redneck” is an American citizen with the right to defend himself and his family against enemies of the constitution, in this case that means you. feeding your family isn’t a good enough excuse for obeying an order that oppresses the people. I bet the ss officer’s families ate very well.

  9. Starman918 says:

    Nope, no way. My agency made me swear an oath to the constitution when I hired on, and I seem to remember something waay back in the academy even in which the “I was only following orders” excuse was given drubbing it deserved.

  10. IdahoMan says:

    “So, I’ll be blunt and ask you: Would you personally, go out and confiscate firearms from law abiding citizens — even if it goes against your personal opinion regarding the constitutional rights of citizens — and do it on the order of an administrative leader of your agency?”

    Annnddd what if we are technically NOT “law-abiding” gun-owners? Good-grief, the way you worded your question, anyone’s going to say “Of course not.”

    What if they pass a law banning firearms, one category at a time or demand a form of registration? Because that’s how it works…

    They don’t take guns from “law-abiding” citizens, they’ll make them “non-law-abiding” citizens first. By banning their class of firearm, or placing them on an unconstitutional “prohibited persons” list.

    So the real question to ask officers is this:

    “Would you arrest somebody and/or confiscate their firearm
    if the law said to do so? Would you enforce an unconstitutional gun law?”

    Because when people talk about resisting when the “government comes for our guns”, this is what we are talking about. We are not going to register our firearms, and we are not going to turn them in.

    So, Mr./Mrs. policemen, when you see me at the range, in my vehicle, or at my home with an evil, only-”criminals”-have-them, multi-felony “assault weapon” or “street-sweeper” with its accompanying, equally-felonious ammunition or accessories: WILL YOU DO IT?

  11. Bella Ann says:

    Never Happen on MY Watch!

  12. I would recommend everyone read John Ross’ Unintended Consequences to get an idea of how to deal with “public servants” who have forgotten who there masters are.

  13. Roy Huntington says:

    Thank you all for your comments. So far, I confess they are going as I anticipated, except for the posting by “Omar Little.” If indeed he is an officer, his is the response I fear the most. The sense of entitlement I’ve noticed among some officers does not bode well for the future. “I have mine, so to hell with you” seems to be the common thread among them.

    The founding fathers did, indeed, risk life and property (and many lost both) in their quest to found this country. I’m honestly not sure some (many?) of today’s LE officers are made of the same stuff. Apparently, from the tone of a few of these posts, it seems they are not.

    I too think if it comes (as it is happening all the time) gun confiscation will arrive quietly in the form of taxes, garnished wages, utilities taxed until guns are turned in, ammo with 5,000 percent tax added, and who knows what else they’ll think of. I honestly doubt cops will ever try to physically confiscate guns … there would simply be too many dead cops, too fast. They’ll back-door it. But as officers, I wonder, will we watch it happening and sit idly by? Too afraid to lose our wave runner in the garage, or our paid vacations to say, “Hey wait, you can’t do that.”
    Your thoughts?
    I’ll follow-up in a future issue with some of the posted comments.
    Roy Huntington
    Publisher

    • Roy, it is so refreshing to know you are out there as a rep. of both media and LE and law abiding gun owners telling it like it is. Everything you have noted in your reply is so very very true & un-sugar coated. “Shall Not Be Infringed” is the most important and most abused and ignored 4 words in the English language. Every Tax, garnished wages etc etc are just as illegal and unconstitutional as actually sending officers to a law abiding gun owners home, Officers have a Constitutional obligation to arrest those who impose and try to legislate the law abiding into criminals to further their criminal agendas. therefore we have a duty and Constitutional obligation to resist through what ever it takes just as our founding fathers did.
      If I was an officer and I was given an unconstitutional order by a supervisor or bureaucrat I would follow my Oath and arrest them and charge them for Crimes against the Constitution. If enough officers did that, there would be a clear message sent, you are not above the law here is your bracelets now shut up. I am waiting, but have been disappointed by our federal law Enforcement Agents, they should have arrested everyone in the current Admin. by now or 3 years ago better yet for the crimes against the Constitution and treason. Oaths are not to the bosses or the politicians they are sworn to the Constitution First and Foremost.
      keep up the good work Roy,
      Someone, any oath keeper out there please Arrest Omar little, he is a Domestic Enemy of the Constitution.
      MSgt USAF ret.

    • And how is this creeping assault on firearms ownership manifesting itself? Politicians learned early this century that gun control was political poison. The firearms industry is booming. 48 states have adopted shall- or concealed carry laws . The current President has done nothing, zilch, nada to promote gun control, even when a prominent member of his own party is the target of a mass-murderer. DC v Heller passed. When was the last time anyone from the Brady Bunch even made the news, and what do you suppose their financial situation looks like now, compared to 25 years ago? The AWB sun-set without so much as a cloud passing in front of it. How many ARs and AKs are owned in the private sector now, versus 25 years ago? And yes, I’ll go there, how many more people are employed writing about guns, shooting, training and such? Walk into the average grocery store or gas station and the gun rags and tactical-this and combat-that magazines have completely taken over what used to be the soft-core porn rack.

      We can’t be complacent about anything, but eventually we can stop constantly checking for imaginary monsters under the bed. I could not care less if my neighbor owned a Bofors gun. The majority of American households supposedly possesses one or more firearms. Seriously, we need to move on, because nobody else seems to care about it, and if the crime rate keeps declining, and budgets keep falling, and technology starts working more and more as a force multiplier and making us human cops less and less useful, I’ll be using my 9 ARs for shooting bunnies to feed my family.

      • Jay Stang says:

        lc32,

        The creeping assault on firearms ownership works quite well, and you might be involved in that assault.

        Question: what do you do if you receive a dispatch that a man with a gun is in a restaurant? Do you automatically assume the man is committing a crime?

        If your state outlaws open carry, and you see a man walking down the street minding his own business with an openly carried firearm, do you arrest him?

        Remember, the 2nd Amendment says “Shall not be infringed”, not “subject to reasonable regulation”.

      • Cantankerous Loon says:

        You ain’t been to California, have ya, sonny?

  14. David Nunn says:

    I will not obey an illegal, unconstitutional order. If the order were to come down to take up guns from citizens, I would go home, and wait for the SOBs to come for mine. They can have them when I am finished with them.

  15. David Nunn says:

    Omar Little is not a man, nor is he a Peace Officer. If he is a cop, he is a JBT mercenary. Let him come for my guns, or try.

  16. I almost went to New Orleans back in 2005, I volunteered but they cancelled our team. I would never do this stuff…its crazy. I would only “confiscate” a persons firearm if I had seen them commit a crime using/possessing a fiream. But thats a legal part of our job.
    Let me tell you all a story I heard from a couple guys who did go from my area….a group of Deputy Sheriffs were going house to house and “clearing” the empty buildings… they had heard the order “No one will be armed” and laughed at it. They said to eachother…what is he fing crazy?! why don’t he do that s$#!t…they ran into a few people who asked..”are you gonna take our guns?” “please don’t there are people shooting for no reason…its our only protection”. The Deputy told them NO. Go and be safe because its anarchy out here and will be for awhile. After awhile the men joined up with a military group with the same task, and they decided to join eachother for safety…so The group went to another house and banged on a storm door, a man answered and said “thank you for checking on us but we don’t need your help and want to stay here”. As the military man started to pull the storm door handle he told the man…open the door step out for evacuation and surrender all your guns”. The lead Deputy took hold of the storm door handle too but pushed it forward and told the military man…were not here for that…what are you talking about?! the military man replied “were here to do a job, were suppose to confiscate all arms”. The Deputy told him.. your not taking this mans only protection. if you do your gonna take mine too…and theres only one way your gonna get it. The militay man looked at the deputy with that doggy side head expression and did’nt know what to say or do… after a few tense moments between the groups of men…the military men left the stack and never came back to the house. the man at the storm door told the deputy…you may have just saved our lives…looters and others have been tearing this area apart…thank you. the Deputy said Stay Safe sir…good luck… not all of our LEO’s did the wrong thing in Louisiana….

  17. This is essentially pointless. Of course the vast majority of us aren’t going to follow a blatantly illegal order, but then we don’t enforce orders, we enforce statutory law that is subject to judicial review. If an agency passes an illegal policy and orders us to adhere to it, then I will need to raise the legitimacy and legality of the policy, but even then there are checks and balances. Courts strike down illegal policies every day. Chiefs get fired and Sheriffs loose elections all the time because they don’t administer agencies in such a way as to reflect the prevailing will of their community.

    This is when the tired old Katrina nugget gets trotted out, but everyone conveniently forgets that the system worked: in short order a court recognized the unConstitutionality of the government’s action, and put a stop to it. Some will say that that is small comfort to the relative view who had their weapons confiscated, but it’s an imperfect system, and always will be as long as humans are in charge. But it isn’t like all of Louisiana was forcibly disarmed. It certainly isn’t on the level of concentration camps for Americans of Asian descent in WWII or the Tuskegee syphilis experiment.

    As for oaths, I swore one, which included upholding and defending the Constitution, and I’m not swearing another, or trying to convince some group that I meant it when I swore to it and signed it. If anybody needs proof, they can look it up themselves in the Clerk or Courts Office.

    When are we going to stop flaying this nag? Don’t we have a zombie apocalypse to prepare for? Cops do stupid, and sometimes blatantly illegal stuff on a routine basis; fortunately they represent a tiny percentage of the LE community. But this is like asking “If you got an order to summarily execute child abuse arrestees, would you do it?” Of course I wouldn’t, however much I’d love to. I wouldn’t because it isn’t about what I want, it’s about the laws and Constitution I swore to uphold.

  18. To those that responded with they would follow orders and confiscate “some redneck’s” firearms, you should do well to remember you took an oath to uphold the Constitution. That Constitution is said to be the final word in court as well. So if you are given an order to go against the Constitution, I imagine you could find yourself in court and in even deeper #*$@. Kind of like what happen in New Orleans.

    As good as it was to see so many replies from police officials that would not follow any such order, it is disheartening to see even a few say they would follow their orders. We were given the right to own firearms because our founding members knew it to be the only way to keep us free. To prevent a governance that takes our rights and dictates our future.

    To those that would ever attempt to come for my guns know this. I have more than you do and plenty of people to put them in the hands of. If you come stomping all over my rights, you are declaring war on America and I will fight for those rights. I have no desire to ever harm another human being, but if you think you will come and fundamentally change this country to suit your needs, you are a direct threat to the United States, my family’s and my safety.

    I hope we never see a day this is attempted. I fear it would almost certainly bring another civil war to the United States. To Omar, I doubt your even a police officer. I suspect you are a troll only posting here to get people worked up. If you are a police officer, you are only a coward who enjoys hiding behind your illusion of power. That badge is only a piece of metal to me. You are in that position to uphold the law, not trample over it with your delusions of superiority. As soon as you move to work against the law, in my opinion you are then an enemy of the United States.

  19. "gunner" says:

    before i retired from a non law enforcement armed job, holding non resident carry permits from two new england states and a “armed courier” license from my residence state in my several years on that job, working all over new england, i never had a police officer ask to see my permit. i suspect that most police officers do respect a law abiding cirizen’s right to “keep and bear arms”, though less so in some larger cities where recruits are indoctrinated in the academy. the only “problems” come when we get a rookie from out of state coming on the job here, and the old timers usually straighten him out, or he leaves for a job somewhere else, where the laws are more like what he’s used to. we do not issue, or require “pistol permits” here, and our police are comfortable with a law abiding armed citizenry, while still having the authority to arrest and disarm convicted felons found in possession of a firearm.

  20. Dan Griffin says:

    I don’t believe the majority of LEO opinions posted here. If told to, I fear they would confiscate our firearms despite what they wrote. It happened in Louisiana just a few years ago. Those LEOs didn’t refuse. What makes anyone think it won’t happen in other states?

  21. bloodyspartan says:

    What do you expect from the Drones when you find Karl MARX and SOCIAL JUSTICE IN criminal law textbooks.

    Times UP.

  22. bloodyspartan says:

    Remember what precedes the Constitution.
    Little Think called the Declaration which is immutable.

    That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

  23. old law dawg says:

    Simple.

    first they will pass a law to make gun owners not law abiding.

    then they will come and take the guns.

    those who resist will die or go to jail.

    Eventually enough people will go to jail or die that either all gun owners or at least those who are among the 3% (see sipsey st. irregulars) will declare war on all who wear a uniform and support he despotic dictatorship.

    Some one will win.

    Either the rest will live free or they will live in a despotic tyrannical police state.

    There is no middle ground

  24. sqhammer says:

    I wonder if little omar only said these things to foment unrest and stimulate conversation that is outside our comfort zone. What admin. does is create laws and policy incrementally so when they do go for your guns it does not seem too drastic. Like putting the frog in the water before bringing it to a boil. If he is being serious than I am truly concerned for our country and what the future has in store for my children and beyond.

  25. Greygrandpa says:

    It appears that many of our officers have not been taught about the Nuremberg war crimes trials after WW2 where it was determined that “following orders” is NOT an acceptable legal defense. If your boss tells you to break the law….it’s your neck.

    I hope any officer that thinks he has the “right” to confiscate a legally carried private weapon has stopped by the booth at the last law enforcement conference and bought that personal liability insurance that was being sold. He is going to need it sooner or later. Don’t forget….the CCW citizen is on YOUR SIDE!

  26. Anonymous says:

    From wiki:

    In 2000 historian Robert Calhoon said the consensus of historians is that in the Thirteen Colonies between 40 and 45 percent of the white population supported the Patriots’ cause, between 15 and 20% supported the Loyalists, and the remainder were neutral or kept a low profile.

    One way to understand the Patriots is to compare their psychology with that of the Loyalists. Labaree (1948) has identified eight characteristics of the Loyalists that made them essentially conservative; opposite traits characterized the patriots. Psychologically, Loyalists were older, better established, and resisted innovation. They thought resistance to the Crown—the legitimate government—was morally wrong, while the Patriots thought morality was on their side. They were alienated when the Patriots resorted to violence, such as burning houses and tarring and feathering. Loyalists wanted to take a middle-of-the road position and were angry when forced by the Patriots to declare their opposition. Many Loyalists, especially merchants in the port cities, had a long-standing sentimental attachment to Britain (often with business and family links to other parts of the British Empire). Some Loyalists were procrastinators who realized that independence was bound to come some day, but wanted to postpone the moment; the Patriots wanted to seize the moment. Loyalists were cautious and afraid of anarchy or tyranny that might come from mob rule; Patriots made a systematic effort to use and control mob violence. Finally, Labaree argues that Loyalists were pessimists who lacked the Patriots’ confidence that independence lay ahead.

    However, the news of the day, for the most part, favored the patriots and vilified the king. Can that be said, today?

  27. James Wilford says:

    We most certainly will follow orders to take arms and already do now. If we get called out to a house and can manage it, we charge someone with a domestic, or if we can work out a drug related felony (possession, whatever). Boom, we got them, and they’ll never have guns again. The legal system has gotten so complex, we can usually manage to charge anyone we like with a felony, if you do enough digging, including cops who don’t follow. We’re getting more assistance from the feds now, access to online stuff, phone records, anything we like. We just have to shop around for a charge. If we don’t like you or you don’t walk the blue line, we’re coming for you.

    If we could increase the size of the court system, and hire more cops, we could very likely get everybody we wanted with some BS felony charge, or a domestic. Then we can seize all their arms, ammo, cash (it’s all drug money anyway – from anybody).

    It’s about power, the way things are moving, I’m going to stay on top. I’m not going to risk my career or lifestyle for some pothead with an AR-15. They broke the law, I get a raise, and get to keep my job. If they make a law that says wearing a red shirt is a felony – good for me. They’re morally wrong if they break the law, I’m gonna get them. Over history, there’s the people who get squashed, and the ones who do the squashing. We just happen to be the boot. Not my problem. We’ll come for you, and there’s nothing anyone can do about it.

    • James, thank god you are not a judge. I don’t think you know the meaning of the word morales. Maybe when you figure that out you’ll be a better cop. Based on your comment, you don’t deserve to wear a badge and its obvious your a follower and wouldn’t know what the right thing to do is even if it slapped you in the face. With your attitude you’ll need all the luck you can get in order to make it to retirement.

    • Most of the comments from the real officers is a good sign. A couple are a little disturbing and represent a militant perspective. “We can always find something on someone” is frightening. “We get a lot of help from the feds” is scary.
      We no longer live in a world of peace officers. It is now law enforcement. It is militarized departments who can quickly become private armies.
      We need to add “public official” to all self defense laws and it has already begun in Indiana.
      Without the constitution, immunity quickly becomes a source for abuse and lawless rogue officers working in a military environment against citizens instead of with citizens as “peace officers.”
      Katrina, a good example of many federal violations, charges and lawsuits, would be a good place to start for “what if” scenarios.
      We are all patriots. Every citizen is militia. God help us if that day arose that we had to grab our rifle and head to the street to protect our families and way of life. Be it with rifle, handgun, baseball bat, stone or knives. We will fight back with what we have. But the point is, we will fight back!
      The protests that some of you officers may have been involved in know all too well that you are outnumbered 500 to 1. Imagine if they stopped pushing and started fighting aggressively in an orderly and trained fashion, without inhibition or remorse? You would all die in a sea of combatants. When are you officers going to start working with us instead of against us? Patriot does not mean terrorist. Liberty is nothing more then following and abiding the supreme laws of the land.
      Soldiers are coming home from battle and being targeted by DHS as potential, *god i hate this phrase* “domestic terrorist.” These are patriots!
      All I can say is if we all followed the constitution of the US and your state. It would be a different world for the better starting tomorrow.
      My god what have we become.

  28. Raconteur says:

    The key is the phrase ‘law-abiding’ citizen. In California they outlawed certain semi-auto rifles. I’m sure you would arrest a person who had one. Now, what if the state outlawed all guns (for whatever pretext). Would you enforce the confiscation this law would require of you? Or would you do what is morally right and refuse, because the law is unconstitutional?

  29. There is no way and no how I would follow any order to confiscate citizens firearms as described. I can also speak for my entire agency who would respond likewise. It just ain’t gonna happen.

  30. Douglas says:

    Omar, you say,”It doesn’t cost me a thing to confiscate your weapon…” An attitude such as that may cost you your life.

  31. I am not a LEO. I am a responsible, tax paying private citizen with a family and responsible neighbors. I believe in not only the 2nd Amendment, but the entire Constitution.

    This question is a “how to boil frogs” question, which is start water at room temperature and slowly turn up the temp until they fade away and cook. The slow heat takes away their flight characteristics when danger becomes imminent to them.

    These illegal orders will be hidden behind “safety emergencies” and other such nonsense. Those that resist will be “terrorists”, even though they are not, they only choose to support the Constitution.

    The pack mentality in the law enforcers will unfortunately take over most police agencies and they will be caught up in the escallating events just like the frogs in the warmer water. They will do nothing but follow what they are told. Those that don’t obey will be attacked by their own kind to “close the ranks” and end any internal dissent.

    Oh, and if you come for my guns, my neighbors will shoot you in the back. If you come for their weapons, I will shoot you in the back. Only, of course, because you are across the street and not facing me. Remember, it was your decision to walk on either mine or my neighbor’s property and steal our Constitutionally protected guns that we use for personal protection.

    You chose to be the domestic enemy of the US Constitution, not me.

    If you as a LEO are taking my guns away, civilization as we know it is over anyway. You are not being allowed to take away my ability to protect my family and neighbors.

    Period.

  32. John Myers says:

    Omar’s problem is very simple. He is very insecure and the only time he feels like man and someone important is when he is wearing his badge and gun. These types of cops are not only dangereous to themselves but are a major danger to the general public and should be removed from the street and fired.

  33. hawk-eye says:

    This is a friendly warning for any LEO willing to disarm any law abiding citizen without a Constitutional justification, it would be unwise to attempt such a treasonous act. Remember you are a THIN line between criminals and the law abiding citizenry. You are vastly out numbered and out gunned on both sides.

    Many of us law abiding citizens are military veterans and are better trained for combat than you, better prepared to defend our rights than you, and willing to do what is necessary should it get to that point.

    We are everywhere and we are watching, waiting, and preparing for the day you try to take our weapons.

    The sleeping giant has been awakened.
    Please reconsider your position.

  34. Come for my guns then you had better be quick and be certain I have no time to react because I will shoot to kill. Don’t for minute that I won’t. I would “rather die on my feet than live on my knees”. Believe it or not, there are still a few of us who are Americans first who will never accept living under tyrray as slaves.

  35. Burt Gummer says:

    I’m a law abiding citizen, but I no longer trust the Police or the Military. I (and my comrades) are preparing for the day when Martial Law is declared you bozos attempt to take what is rightfully ours. You will lose, and you will probably die as there aren’t enough of you to deal with us. We will number at least 10% (over 30 million) nationally and much higher percentage in rural areas. You come for our guns…………YOU ARE DEAD. And remember you and your family will have to live among us. If you chose to make us your enemy, you and your family will have no GREEN ZONE to save your ass.

    • Once comments like the several above are made, the discussion is over. It does far more harm than good, and only reinforces the stereotype of gun owners as rabid wingnuts. The government doesn’t want your guns, why would they? The progun lobby proved over a decade ago that politicians who make gun control a primary issue soon die, and I mean figuratively. As a cop, I don’t want your guns, I don’t care about your guns, I’m not interested in your guns, it just isn’t an issue.

      And if I get a call of a man with a gun in a restaurant, you can be damn sure I’m coming in hot. You may be exercising, or flaunting, your 2nd Amendment rights, but I’m going to be exercising my judgement in the light of incidents like the San Ysidro McDonalds slaughter, the mass murder at Luby’s in Texas, and the 4 cops murdered in a coffee shop 2 years ago. It isn’t about you, or me, we aren’t that important. It’s about the bigger picture, the community that expects me to protect them, and the laws, and yes, that includes the Constitution, that I swore to uphold. Don’t ever forget the first three words of the Preamble, instead of always jumping ahead to the Amendments.

      And what are comments like those supposed to do, frighten me? And you’ll yowl about some pro-gun anti-government groups being listed as extremist organizations?

      • CombatVet says:

        Damn bud where I live you would be the extreemist. We all carry here in my part of rural America! And the powers that be are after privatly owned guns just not by above board methods! Stop drinking the Kool aid DHS is propagandizing you with and realize that your surrounded by pissed off very suspicious red staters in every direction. We are pissed and suspicious for damn good reason too!

  36. I’m retired now, but not only no, but hell no!

  37. I am LEO. I believe the “infringement” will come slowly as others have described. I will never agree with it.

    So, to all the “Omar’s” out there I say only this: Come get them. Getting in is the easy part. If you insist on the herein argued action, getting back out will be a challenge you won’t be up to.

    May cooler heads prevail.

    • James Wilford says:

      We, including yourself will simply charge people with petty crimes, or possession charges. If that doesn’t work, we’ll go with tax charges. We get them with a felony, or domestic we take their guns. Simple. That’s how the USSR did it, that’s how we do it.

      • Actually, they did it, such as it was, by an incredibly violent revolution and civil war in 1917 – 1918. And there’s no evidence of an actual shortage of guns in public hands during the Soviet reign, hunting was popular, and often required to survive. Military service was compulsory, so every Soviet knew at least the rudiments of riflecraft. There certainly isn’t a shortage of them today. The difference was always what happened if you did something with a gun that the government didn’t like. You were certainly in hot water then, and it wasn’t turned up slowly.

  38. Johnny FreeWill says:

    First off I’m not an Officer of the law, I really appreciate most of the Officers comments about their full support of the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
    God Bless America, long live the Republic

  39. Closing thought – think of all the funky stuff, like the heat wave and storm that’s wiped out the infrastructure
    where I’m at, plus past disasters since and before Katrina, the Occupy movement, and all the other madness we’ve been through, like Bonnaroo, and nary one gun illegally confiscated. Why ressurect this now? Politics maybe? If anyone thinks a Lame duck second term President could pull off something like the unilateral disarmament of the American public, they clearly have no idea of how inefficient our government is.

  40. Awlhattin O'Kaddle says:

    If an Illegal Order to Confiscate Firearms is issued, isn’t it

    incumbent on Police Officers to Arrest the Law Breaker that gave the order ?

  41. TurkeyBacon says:

    As a professional criminal I would say that I need my firearm for my line of business. Take away my .45 and you take away my power to put a hole in someone who gets in my way!

  42. When I took my Oath of Office, I swore before God to defend the Constitution of the United States. It was an oath that I took very seriously. I do not remember any exceptions or promises to obey orders from some politician or supervisor even if they were in violation of the Constitution. Any “law enforcement officer” that does otherwise is not fit in my opinion to wear the badge, and is not a true law enforcement officer because the Constitution IS the law of the land, and any and all laws contrary to the Constitution are null and void. That includes the 2nd Amendment as much as the 4th, 5th, or any other amendment.

  43. I’ve been a reserve cop for over eight months now. I come from a very proud and strong family of Second Amendment enthusiast’s.
    I’ll be damned if I’ll take illegal orders from anyone telling me to take some citizen’s guns away, because some dirtbag politican thinks I should! If you want their guns Mr. Politican, you go get them yourself…and see what happens!

    • There is no such thing as a reserve cop. you are or you are not. Are you just a cop when it suits you? You work for dirtbag politicans not the tax payer. makes you a reserve dirtball?

  44. Very interesting article. I have to respond to Omar Little. I don’t know what was in your academy curriculum, but according to the federal and state supreme courts, law enforcement has no duty and any other obligation to protect citizens. You don’t really serve the public in any case; you serve the government. You risk your life “to protect and serve” government, not the public. You’re just government employees. There is no such person as a “public servant”, nor such a thing as “police protection”. Ask you chief, any sheriff, jufge, prosecutor, or defense attorney. They will verify this info for you, albeit only in private. it’s the best kept secret of your chosen profession. Everybody in the system knows it, but no one will dare admit to it in public. When any of us “civilians” get in a one-on-one situation with a 2-legged animal, we are literally on our own. For us, we have only seconds to react to the situation when you people are always at least minutes away. if I ever have such a situation, I will handle it any way I consider necessary and to hell with any consequences. I have a God-given right to self-defense and I don’t care what anyone’s law says about that. I hope for your sake you never follow any order to go confiscate law-abiding citizens’ weapons; you’ll just turn your wife into a widow. That can be easily avoided. it’s your choice; i just hope you make a wise choice for your sake.

  45. bornagain-blackops says:

    After reading the letter from the Utah Sheriff’s Association published on or about 17 March this year, any executive orders from Obama to federal agents to come into our state and confiscate our firerams (and possibly take us to a federal lockup at some undisclosed location) are illegal, based solely on politics and not the Constitution, is an act of overt-treason.

  46. Many of the officers posting that they will seize guns need to ask themselves one question:
    “What will you do when you are no longer an officer, and they come for YOUR guns?”

    Are you still so eager to take guns away from people, if it means you will not be able to defend yourself and your family? You know what your response times are, are you willing to place the safety of yourself and your family totally in the hands of the Government?
    In some Australian states, officers have to leave their guns at the station when they go off shift. Now, they are having problems with biker gangs targeting the off duty officers.

    Does this change your outlook? Or do you think that, somehow, you will be exempt because you used to be an officer?
    Dreams will not protect you.

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